FiLM Grenade

The other day we posted an interview with Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard. We just found this other interview with the two composers and the L.A Times. The interviewers actually listened to about 10 minutes of music from The Dark Knight. To be more specific, they listened to an 8 minute piece of the Joker’s theme. They described the Joker’s music as ” a damning piece of music.” They also said that it sounded very industrial and that it sounded like an “orchestral interpretation of something created by Trent Reznor’s Nine Inch Nails.” Zimmer talks about scoring the Joker and what he says is quite interesting. The interview has a lot more to it than just that. Read the interview below and tell us what you think.

So let’s start in the obvious place. Why go with a fast-and-simple string pattern rather than give the film a big, easily recognizable theme?

Zimmer: I wanted to take the romance out of it — the fake fantasy to it. One of the things I kept thinking about was just how iconic the bat symbol is, and at the same time how dark and unadorned it is. I spent forever getting rid of notes to get it down to just two notes in this ostinato pattern…. The bat symbol is so efficient at getting the idea across. I wanted to get really efficient.

Howard: At the same time, when you write a traditional, conventional superhero theme, it gives you so much information that it might be misleading about that character. Our Batman? We’re still getting to know him. He’s a very complicated guy. To attach a theme to him, a theme you can sort of hum, it defines him emotionally in a way that is false…. It advertises so much about who you are during the film. I think, in a way, a theme like that would have done that. This theme is about implication, and it’s about menace.

And there is still a recognizable sound attached to the character

Zimmer: But I’m letting the character finish the thought. It leaves a lot more space. I don’t see Batman as a superhero. I wanted to be very clear about that. I wanted to take out anything that is super about this.

I’ve written enough big themes. The only really heroic theme I ever wrote — the only one I thought I could write with a clear conscience — was for the firemen in “Backdraft.” There’s purity about guys who come to your house to save you and your cat. Their agenda is strictly to help.

There’s a complex agenda that goes through the Batman philosophy. He’s a vigilante. He hides his face. What kind of man does that?

Earlier you said you did once consider that sort of heroic superhero theme. You said you created one and threw it out?

Howard: We created a number of them. Hans actually did write a terrific theme for this movie. It threatens to reappear, but then it just kind of goes away.

Zimmer: It appears early on. It ultimately appears twice. Without giving the story away, what it does is highlight the red herring of the Batman.

So why so secretive with the score? Are music cues really going to give away the film?

Zimmer: Look, here’s the thing that happened on the last one: We all knew we had something pretty iconic and special. But before the movie was even out, someone had put it on a trailer for another movie. I phoned up Warner Bros. and told them they were ruining any possibility of having something special or having a franchise. Why would you take the Batman costume and put it on somebody else?

I think it’s more that we’re being private. We really started doing some pretty uncompromising experiments on this one. It’s very tough to defend some of these things until you’ve put them all the way through the movie. You have to get through the whole paragraph to get to the point. Working in this private way lets us be a lot freer with our ideas.

Let’s talk about the “Joker Suite.” This almost sounded like an orchestral interpretation of an industrial song.

Zimmer: Look, I’m German, so I come from the German tradition of Kraftwerk…. But I kept thinking I wanted to find a way to bring corrosion into Gotham — corrosion and recklessness. The funny thing about that piece is that I knew what I wanted to do, but it took me months to actually do it. Nobody could play it.

It’s all about acting and attitude, in a way. It’s very much of the idea of taking one note and expressing any part of fearlessness and recklessness and surprise…. It is very industrial music. I tried to give it a punk attitude. I used to work with the Damned and bands like that.

Howard: What’s great about the Joker theme to me is that it feels totally untethered. It just kind of exists. It lives somewhere in the cracks.

What else is different this time around?

Zimmer: This is what surprised me, and I think this needs a little clarifying. Everyone keeps saying that this film is darker than the last one. I always think that people think that means more violence. It’s not that at all. There’s much more of a precise intellectual thought that went into Christopher [Nolan] and his brother [Jonathan] while writing. The ideas are somehow more real and more grown-up. We’re doing a summer blockbuster that deals with anarchy and old-fashioned values versus the modern man. That’s a lot of fun to play with.

You guys split up characters a bit. James, can you talk about what you created for Harvey Dent/Two Face?

Howard: Basically, Harvey Dent is Gotham’s great hope. He’s going to turn things around. He starts out with the best of intentions. He’s a brave, courageous, high-minded man. Over the course of this story, he becomes seduced and corrupted — really by the Joker. The Joker kind of wins. It’s just the arc of his character, which ultimately ends up in a very tragic self-destructive place. That was the musical line.

Zimmer: What makes it interesting is that there are such extremes. The music James wrote for Harvey Dent is really beautiful. On the hand, you have the Joker theme, and on the other hand you have that contrast of something really elegant and beautiful.